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Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. rev2023.3.3.43278. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. You arent doing anything wrong. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Very cool. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". . That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. edited 6 yr. ago. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. Planes in Space. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. Your previous content has been restored. These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? Paste as plain text instead, Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. Content titles and body; Content titles only Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. You could try combining the two. How can I make money in the new career mode? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. 20 votes, 21 comments. 2.) There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. You cannot paste images directly. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. Have you checked out the wiki yet? Why that? Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. "Whiplash" Turbojet. This thread is quite old. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. It flames out at 25,000. Press J to jump to the feed. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Upload or insert images from URL. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. That will unlock: Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Powered by Invision Community. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. However, it seems as if your delta wing has has more area, might that be it? I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). This works, but it's not optimal. Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. They will someday, but they don't now. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. - Insane TWR didn't help. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. I followed a similar strategy. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. More air is better. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. You need to do it with what you've got. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. You cannot paste images directly. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Don't worry about Isp. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). You cannot paste images directly. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. Will post my results. AoA and G-force moderation. This is the first version. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Fighting oscillations. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. principle. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? 3.) If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. Display as a link instead, That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Kerbal Space Program 2 . But a rockets can do it. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. Ep. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. Upload or insert images from URL. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities.